>The Lesser of Two Evils
>“We shouldn’t try to inform or persuade you; you’ve made your decision and, frankly, your projected indecision is an affront to every qualified minority in this nation who struggles against people like you each day.”
“If last night’s debate was what swayed you towards McCain, then you’re easily swayed by little substance, much pandering and a tired old man recycling rhetoric my friend.”
“Wow, I am floored. It sickens me that anyone can even consider voting for McCain/Palin.”
“Wow. Did you watch the same debate? I doubt you were “undecided” at all.”
“Oh, you voted for Bush? Then yes, you will vote for McCain. It would be consistent with your poor past judgement. Some people NEVER learn.”
“man you’re such a tool trying to hide behind the guise of being “undecided”.”
“…anyone who watched the debate in Nashville last night with an open, “unmade up” mind and came away concluding that Obama was vague and McCain was clearer — contrary to every poll take after last night’s debate — is someone more likely masquerarding as an Independent, but is infact a die-hard McCain supporter.”
“Good Lord, woman, please stay home on election day unless you can make an educated choice. We both know who that would be.“
Most of you were polite and respectful in the comments of Wednesday’s post. But a surprising number of comments were downright hostile.
And it struck me that those of you who are “sickened” by my simple admission that I was surprised to find I liked some of what McCain had to say should perhaps re-evaluate what you are doing supporting a party known for its tolerance. Because you certainly weren’t exhibiting any tolerance toward me as I try to make a decision in this election.
No wonder so many out there refuse to talk or write about politics.
I have been so disheartened by how much this election has divided us as a nation. Posts like this one make me sad (although I have nothing against the author, who was very brave to share her point of view), because it really grieves me that people are basing their opinion of a person on the candidate he or she supports- or in my case, is even thinking about supporting.
In my case, I don’t even really have the heart to fight back, because I will never be a big supporter of either candidate. In my final words on the matter (at least for a long while,) find out why in this week’s newspaper edition of Suburban Turmoil.
>It seems like EVERY election turns into choosing, as you said, “the lesser of two evils,” and it’s so disheartening. Like you, I’m undecided, and I wish that someday we could have a candidate who is truly willing to cross party lines and just do what’s best for the country. Democrats aren’t right on everything, and neither are Republicans, but if FOR ONCE they would work together instead of constantly competing, we might actually get some good things accomplished.Excellent article, and good luck making your decision on Election Day. At this point, I’m still tempted to just stay home.
>This is pretty funny because I made up my mind early on and people I know and respect have tried very hard to convince me otherwise, however, every time I see McCain and Obama together, I come away thinking that one of these men has his shit together and the other one is trying to put his shit out there the way his “aids” have told him to do so. McCain just appears so stiff and uncomfortable..and to think the town hall way was suppose to work in his favor. Ask any body language professional and even ones that are McCain supporters will tell you that his body language is not good. A few examples were he would answer the question and while he was answering, he would back away from the audience which in body language lingo means he is basically retracting what he is saying or not confident enough to stay in the forefront.Secondly, he used real herky jerky hand motions that appeared to be his way of making us understand but b/c his hang jestures were so jerky, it seemed like he didn’t really know how to make it all flow in the first place.And, in the same arena, Obama has grand sweeping hand motions as he speaks, he walks toward the crowd and he stands firm in front of them as to say, “go ahead, ask me another one, I can handle it”.Just my FYI
>rude people suck.the end.
>I too get turned off from political talk that turns nasty and bitter. I would like to engage in talk about politics where I can learn about different viewpoints and possibly see a different point of view. Instead of having my opinions or questions blasted because I might lean toward a particular party.I also think that regardless of the issues in the nation or the experience or lack thereof by any of the candidates or their running mates…our country is fast becoming a place where many of the media “spin” what we just saw or heard…making something out of nothing most of the time…and we as a country sit back and actually vote for people who are more smooth talkers or pretty people…instead of actually doing research to find out about voting records, speeches, written economic plans, etc. I loved your previous post where you offered several sites to do some research.I also think it is refreshing to have someone like yourself that at least throws their opinions out there…and isn’t afraid to say what they believe in or feel…I myself very often keep those things to myself trying to keep out of the storm. I’m trying to learn that my opinion is only that…an opinion…and it’s okay to say what I believe…and others’ can lump it or leave it.Thanks Lindsay, for keeping it real.Kristi in TExas
>I think that this just shows how passionate some people are about changing this country and making it better for future generations. And no matter what side someone has chosen, it’s always a bit of a gut-reaction to feel a bit hurt that someone is picking the “other side” aka “the side you don’t believe will change things for the better”. Not that I think it’s OK for people to berate you for your choice – this country is full of people that make different choices all day long and Thank God we have the freedom to do so! However, I can see why people get so passionate and fired up – it’s our country, our finances, and our families that these things impact. Things like the economy and who can make it better hit pretty close to home when you’re looking at a 401k balance with a negative 34% return on investment for the year, and can make it feel pretty darn personal.That said, you have your vote and your choice and can choose to do whatever you want with it, even if I am prO-bama and think he can change this country for the better.
>I think people are super-sensitive right now, in general, because of the economy going belly up. It’s devastated a lot of people and will continue to be a struggle for many months (perhaps even years).What I don’t understand, is people’s need to point fingers at one thing/person. The economy flatlining wasn’t because of one administration, or even one person, it was a collaboration of many elements (even dating back to the Clinton administration) – don’t believe me? Go to factcheck.org – they spell it out quite nicely.I’ll be honest – I do not like either candidate. Any candidate who acts like he can “fix” us makes me nervous – no one man can do that, period. And another candidate who appears to have a chip on his shoulder and who will likely stretch our foreign occupations out makes me very uncomfortable. (And by the way, McCain’s jerky movements are largely due to the fact that his body is pieced together with pins and rubber bands. He simply CAN’T move that well because of his military past – cut the man some slack, sheesh).This country needs to unite, period. Stop judging people based on their political aspirations (liberal – bleeding heart tree-hugger, conservative, heartless bastards who love to kick kids out into the street), it’s crazy. Each side has strengths and weaknesses. It’s up to us, the voters, to put the best man (woman?) in office who will make our country stronger overall. It’s not about sex or gender, people, it’s about OUR COUNTRY.I’m sorry you received all of those nasty comments, Lindsey. You have a spine made of steel – I admire that. Sensitive issues are so hard to discuss sans the emotions, but sans emotions they must be – it’s about putting people in office who will do the right thing, not make things worse.
>Sorry, I meant to say “it’s not about RACE or gender.”My bad.
>I believe I was one of the polite commenters last time. Of course, it’s your choice who you vote for. And even if I disagree with you on that it doesn’t make you “bad” or “stupid.”I do think passion is running particularly high this time because those of us who didn’t vote for Bush and were against the war to begin with are positively petrified at the thought of a continuation of policies that have brought us to the edge of economic ruin, ruined our standing on the world stage, and done nothing to address the catastrophe that is climate change.When you honestly believe our very future is at stake people become a bit shrill.
>Go back to the 1930s and 1940s. Would you support and be friends with someone who supported Hitler and his policies?
>There is no excuse for downright rudeness. However… please try to at least understand where many of these people are coming from. I guess I can’t speak for everyone, but I can speak for myself as a liberal and a democrat and I can see how these people could have written those things. We are frustrated. We have a clear view of what we want for the country and we feel the election was stolen in 2000. More Americans voted for Gore than for Bush, and because of a flawed system and a biased Supreme Court, we got stuck with Bush. Then 9/11 happens… and Bush bungles the whole mess. He takes this fantastic opportunity to use the sympathy of the world for us and create new and lasting allies… and instead just pisses everyone off, gets more Americans killed post 9/11 than in 9/11 with his poor management of the war, and somehow creates the impression that if you think he is wrong you’re unpatriotic and a bad American. And that stigma works! People were afraid to admit defeat in Iraq (or that we shouldnt be there in the first place) and somehow he pulls off a win in 2004. Granted, this was a real win, but I at least feel that a lot of America had the wool pulled over their eyes in that one. Now we have a chance. We have this great, fresh, guy who might actually make a difference. And the sad fact is that elections are not decided by me because I am a supporter. Elections are decided by YOU. The undecided. You are who they pander to. You are who they want to win. You are who they NEED in order to win this election. It is tiresome to hear people himm and haw over the two sides. The system is far from perfect but it is what it is. There is no such thing as a social liberal and a fiscal conservative— the social liberties must be paid from somewhere. McCain is a liability. He has a dangerous foreign policy and a health care plan that is complicated enough that people think it might actually work– but it won’t. He claims to be bipartisan but in reality he just pisses EVERYONE off and we need someone to build coalitions not stomp on people’s rights. So this is why we are frustrated. When a debate like Tuesday happens and every poll in America concludes as we have, that Obama outspoke, outperformed, and out-explained Mccain, and then we see an undecided voter with a far-reaching voice being taken by the propaganda of Mccain… it is disheartening. It is disappointing. We are scared. We have lived in shame and embarrassment of our government for 8 years and we are just downright scared of another 4…
>clerksgrl, you’re not going to win Obama any votes by putting down people with other viewpoints. That’s what’s known as “intolerance.” Is that really how you want to come off?
>Good response post. It takes a brave person to write about politics. And being Republican is like the new gay – you have to think carefully about whether to “come out” and slap that McCain/Palin bumper sticker on. (Sad for the gays and the Republicans.) I vote, and always have, for the party that reflects most closely my views about the proper role of government. For me it comes down to the basic political philosophy more than the individual person. The person matters of course, but once in office they are part of something bigger and they usually moderate their views in order to accomplish something. And most people running for president, I believe, genuinely want to do the best possible job at it. There are ego and power motives THATS CERTAIN but they also really fully intend to do an awesome job. (I just believe it’s not awesome to take more of my money in taxes.)
>Yes, this is an important election (is there such a thing as an unimportant one?), and yes, people are passionate about their beliefs for this country. But we are adults and (presumably) know how to behave. There is NO excuse for rudeness. Period. It’s not helpful, and it’s certainly not the way I would want to represent my candidate of choice.(And I say this as a supporter for Obama.)
>I don’t see how Clerksgrl was putting down anyone.She is telling it like it is.I think the people that are the most passionate and vocal about this election are the ones who really understand what is at stake here and what has been taken from us in the last 8 years. We GET it. And we don’t want any more of it. We know what another 4 or 8 years of the same type of Bush policy would mean for our country and our civil liberties. We just don’t understand why some people DON’T get it yet. And it is frustrating.
>I said something about being undecided recently and I felt swarmed: Some thought I don’t follow politics and *needed* a primer, some thought I was lying, some thought I must not know what I want.I’ve voted for democrats and republicans. I don’t bow to a party.I just want to make a decision based on substance and neither candidate is the devil or messiah in my book.Sorry you took the heat. Many people are voting like us.
>Rosie, read the comments here and at BlogHer.com. There are more than a hundred thoughtful, impassioned comments from Obama supporters who don’t resort to rudeness. They have given me lots to think about, without attacking me.I agree that there’s no excuse for rudeness in this situation. None. Not only is it uncalled for, it makes your party look bad (I’m saying this as someone who vehemently claims neither party) and it does absolutely nothing to further your cause.
>The thing that sucks is that people can be so rude. You’re entitled to your opinion, just as much as they are. Even if I disagree with you, I’d never be rude about it. I’m an Obama supporter, but treating people like crap because they aren’t is just pissing me off. I kinda wish it was all just done, before it gets any uglier around here.To Rosie: Bringing up the Holocaust and comparing it to this election is uncool. Seriously? The Holocaust? Supporting Hitler is the same as supporting McCain? Come on now. Think about what you just said. McCain isn’t who I’d like as my President, but he’s NOT Hitler.
>Also, Hitler was intolerant of others’ backgrounds, beliefs and viewpoints, which is pretty much what got him started on his path of destruction in the first place.
>“Agree to disagree.” I find it hard to fathom that, in general, people cannot do that.The post you linked to is a sad commentary on the status of our society. There are people who cannot overcome political differences? Really? How can we say we will be able to overcome differences, like gender, race and religion? Have we really not progressed as much as we thought? Is it OK to say we will never look at someone the same because of their political views? What about because they are a different race? Religion?It just seems like it gets worse every day . . .
>I’m one of those undecided votes. I am leaning one way…but honestly, I don’t know that I will conclusively decide until I’m in that voting booth. I will make a decision. I will vote. That is my American right and duty I feel to my country.What gets me…is anyone saying, “all the polls have decided who…out performed, outspoke, etc.”People make their voting decisions based on a variety of issues. Each person is entitled to vote however they choose to come upon a decision. Some people look at their party, some look at the candidate, some look at race, some look at gender, some look at military experience, some look at home life, etc. And I guess some look at the polls. As Americans, I believe we just need to encourage one another to vote. Yes, we can get passionate about the candidate or views we feel strongly about. And quite frankly, we all need to get a little more passionate about what is happening in our country.I don’t think, in my humble opinion, that we need to put down, pressure, or belittle other people to make their decision to vote the exact way we do. This country is in a mess. There are many contributing factors. It is not just George W’s fault. I’m not happy with him for many reasons. I’m not taking up for him…but it is not as simple as putting all the blame on him. Look at the bailout plan…how much pork was added once it was a popular vote for our lawmakers. We need a radical change in thinking from the top on down…that if there is no money, you don’t spend it.No matter how you slice it…it is going to take a bipartisan effort from the White House to Congress to us citizens to turn this back around.
>What was it that Biden said, about being able to work with people on the other side of the aisle? Because he never questioned their motives. I liked that. People we care about and respect can think differently than we do, and we simply have to respect and understand that they have their reasons. I’m not happy that some people have been disrespectful, but it IS impressive that the vast majority have been. Thank you for once again sharing your honest opinion with us.
>You know, I had this whole big long comment I wanted to write, but I realized that I really only wanted to say one thing.I think it’s a damn shame that some people seem to forget concepts like “respect” and “tolerance” when politics comes into play.And really? That’s it. I’m very opinionated, and I’m always up for a tense political debate. Would I ever think less of someone or put someone down for having an opinion that was different than mine? Absolutely not.Seems that no matter what you post about politics you’re going to get slammed by someone – I’m seeing it all over to the place these days. Kudos for you for expressing how you feel – even if I don’t agree. =)
>I heart Suburban Turmoil……… and John McCain…..MUHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!I jest. I jest. Really, I heart only one thing at the moment. Leftover birthday cake. Because yes, I am still pregnant.Of course, you should vote for whoever you want to and you should feel free to say whatever you want to. It is my experience that the people most likely to comment about anything are those who are looking to flame and complain. I bet you have plenty of readers who appreciate lots of different opinions, but just chose to not get into the fray.And then you have readers like me who really need a little more to do at work….
>I wasn’t comparing anyone in particular to Hitler. People seemed surprised that some people couldn’t be friends with others who weren’t of the same political party. My Hitler comment was just to make a point that he had radical views, some of which people strongly disagreed with. Therefore, would you want to be friends with someone whose political beliefs were so radically different from yours? Issas Crazy World – I didn’t compare the Holocaust and Hitler to McCain, please don’t put words in my mouth. I made a simple comment that people’s political beliefs can be so radical that it could prevent or end a friendship. That is all.
>Oh Lindsay, please keep researching, please, read excerpt of “The Real John McCain” and what he called his wife, read about his temper. See the interviews with his ex POW’s. Please dig deeper than the debate. Love ya’ no matter what though. 🙂
>I remember recently telling someone that I tend to be a moderate conservative (but honestly, I am not 100% — is anyone?), and she surprised me by saying, “I would never have believed that. Conservatives are so hateful!” I guess that was a left-handed compliment of sorts?Those types of comments have always amazed me. Most conservatives aren’t blowing up abortion clinics, though those types of people are out there. Rather, my experience has been that the people on the other side of the fence are by far the more hostile. And, the comments that you have published in the main body of this post are the perfect example of what I’m talking about. I hear them all the time.My husband has a friend like that — he honestly believes that anyone who would vote for anyone who isn’t a Democrat is a flaming idiot. And he hates them. He is incapable of discussing ideas. We don’t have dinner there anymore, because he really believes that anyone who does not buy the Democratic agenda lock, stock and barrel is moronic, unenlightened, and certainly should not be voting and ruining things “for the rest of us.”I’m just tired of it. Really tired. And I miss the marketplace of ideas. I think that everyone should have a seat at the table.
>Lindsay- If I came off as rude or insulting, it is not what I meant to do. I am at work today so I’m obviously typing fast without spending too long revising or thinking of how things might come off… just typing extemporaneously I guess. My point there wasn’t really to change your mind for Obama though (I have read some of the responses at BlogHer and I think there are some great and compelling arguments there). You have had enough information one way and another, I think. My point was rather to try to explain WHY the frustration level of liberals is so high this time. I was giving my unedited feelings. I hoped that by reading the way I feel, you might understand why people might be prone to being a bit more rude than they would normally (I hope) be. It is born of exasperation I believe. That is all I was trying to do.
>I wish people would talk intelligently about politics instead of trying to shove what they think and feel down others’ throats. If you can vote, then do so on your own accord and back off preaching and yelling and screaming and telling people they’re stupid for not feeling as you do. We all have a choice, that choice is ours and you better high tail it away from me if you start messing with my choices.I think it was great you breached the subject and wrote what you wrote. At least you’re thinking about it instead of making blind choices based on ads and what other people have told you. It shows you are one intelligent lady, and that is great. And yes, as someone stated before, rude people do suck and should go suck big monkey toes.
>It does seem more vitriolic this time around. I am pro-life (or anti-choice depending on your veiw), so I have been called anti-feminist, anti-woman and someone whose daughters should be taken away from her.I’m anti-war and death penalty (or again, pro-life), but have been told that supporting a pro-choice candidate will damn my soul to hell.I’m for fewer taxes and less government control, but I hired a family of illegal aliens to assist me around the house and yard. My husband and I support them and send money to help their family they left behind. You can imagine my angst over this election. And how susceptible I am to the vitriol.But this isn’t the most vitriolic election in history. There was that one that caused a war. I guess I can live with this, and really learn to appreciate the fact that I have a PRIVATE vote.
>Jerri Ann-McCain’s jerky movements are due to the fact that he was a POW for 5 years and didn’t receive the proper medical attention. He wasn’t able to rehabilitate and therefore can’t move his arms but so far. Before you start condmeing someone on their disability you might want to do a little research.I don’t think he is all “Hail, Hail the Chief” either but I agree with ST- he is the lesser of 2 evils.
>once again, I’d like to say that it took guts to write that post. Thank you for putting yourself out there.
>Lindsay–Didn’t you once write a blog post that started out with something like, “I gulped and told my husband that I might be a, gasp, democrat!” And then he responded with, like, disgust?I’m not trying to attack you or discredit you… I just think for the sake of full disclosure it would be nice to know if you’re an independent with a spouse and family (whose opinions influence you) who are lifelong republicans or if you’re an independent with an independent minded family. It makes a wee bit of a difference.Although at this point, the point may be moot. haha
>Rosie said, “We just don’t understand why some people don’t GET IT yet.” And that is what I find most insulting. I have opinions that may differ from someone else’s. That doesn’t make me an idiot, or someone who doesn’t GET IT. We all have our reasons for having the opinions we hold. Our backgrounds, religious beliefs, personal financial positions, sexual preferences, whether we have children or not–all these things and many more play into forming our opinions on politial topics. What I hold most dear may be completely unimportant to you, and vice versa–but that’s okay; that’s what makes this such a great, colorful country! That variety COULD go a long way toward helping us come up with the best solutions, the best compromises, to benefit our country. The problem is that, like I said in the first comment, too many politicians are unwilling to reach across the aisle and stray from the party line.
>Beautifully written column, Lindsay. I am sorry the reactions to yesterdays post were so uncivil. I love that you invited us to change your mind and had fun with it. I don’t understand people taking advantage of that and making you seem less than you are for having an opinion that’s different than theirs.I know how it feels to be unexcited by candidates. I have to say, though, that this is the first time in my life that I’ve really connected with a candidate and I’m feeling truly excited and so very nervous we won’t get to experience his leadership. If he gets elected, I hope you’ll be pleasantly surprised. If he doesn’t, I hope I am pleasantly surprised.
>I’m not going to read all these comments, but I just want to applaud you for putting your struggle out there and being honest. Personally, I’ve been decided since the nominations, simply because I have a few non-optional issues and while I still care about other things, if my basic “needs” aren’t met, well, there’s not much left to say. But if that’s not the case, I think it’s way better to stay undecided, even until you get to the voting booth, and keep your mind open to new information than to make a choice and find out later you made the wrong one.The thing I think is most important for you as an undecided voter is to find alternative sources of news than the mainstream media. Even though your husband is in it, I can assure you that inaccurate reporting goes on and important issues are being under-reported. I read blogs on both sides of the aisle and my bias will show if I recommend policital blogs. Maybe I can give you a few on both sides:daily kosmichelle malkinhuffinton postpowerlinedrudgereportweekly standardgateway punditHope this information helps you make a choice that is consistant with your beliefs and conscience.
>Gosh, look, you made me have to go and register to get a Google/Blogger account.Anyway, Lindsay. Come, on! You are acting very immature about all of this. So some people disagreed with you. So, what?!?!I’m sorry your readers haven’t supported you 100%, but you know, that’s what is so great about the country in which we live. We can disagree with each other, peacefully.
>Nicola, you’re referring to this post, which pretty much reiterates what I’ve written in the last few days. My husband did NOT respond with disgust, for one thing. His political beliefs are very similar, though not identical, to mine- he’s conservative on some points (fiscally, for example, as many Nashvillians know!) and more liberal on others (like the environment). My parents are conservative, so I do come from that background, however I would describe my dad as Libertarian, not Republican.At any rate, if you want to define my political beliefs by my background, you should know that a lot more goes into it than family. In college, I took many courses in the ultra-liberal Women’s Studies program (enough that I could have officially minored in it), I also took many religion courses- from New Testament religion to Islamic Thought. During Christmas vacation in college once, I stayed with a group of anarchists from ACT UP who were squatting in a house in Philadelphia. We were very different, but I loved their passion and they couldn’t have been nicer or more open. We had many great discussions and I think we all learned a lot from each other. In high school, I was very active in my church youth group, but one of my closest friends at school was not only Jewish, but also wanted to one day be a rabbi. When I spent the night at her house, we would talk late into the night about why we believed what we believed. It’s another great memory of mine and it taught me at an early age that others believe what they believe just as fervently as I do, and that I should give them the same amount of respect for their beliefs that I would want given to me. I tell you all this only because these things shaped me as much as anything growing up.I really and truly LOVE to get to know people from all kinds of different backgrounds- always have- and I think many of the comment threads on this blog would attest to that. I look for friends who are interesting and have good hearts, not friends who are “Christian” or “Democrat” or “Asian” or “upper middle class.” And I think that’s why it disappoints me that a discussion on politics somehow descends to this level. I can’t help but believe we’re bigger than that. I also agree with some of you that all of us need to be in a mental place where we can put the election behind us, regardless of who’s elected, work together, and help each other through this economic crisis.
>LindsayI read your original posts, both pre and post debate. I though “Oh God, here it comes” and then I read all the comments and boy, was I right. The rudeness, pressure, intensity and vitriol on the comments from Obama supporters was incredible, although not surprising to me. To be fair, there were almost NO comments from McCain supporters, and therefore less rude ones as well, of course.So now, you write a post discussing that very fact (the rudeness of the commenters) and …yup…here we go AGAIN with the rude comments, browbeating and insulting.I think that many Obama supporters TRULY believe that it is UNFATHOMABLE for anyone to not agree with them. And they just launch into their rap again (and again) often name calling and being insulting in the process.It is very difficult to have a discussion or civilized discourse when one side truly believes you cannot be intelligent or informed and hold a different view than theirs.My suggestion- go into the voting booth (which is PRIVATE by the way!) and make your choice. And keep it to yourself.And then go back to the Punky/Bruiser stories that we all love.You are a gifted and wonderful writer and I love your blog.But your hopes for civilized discourse are probably in vain on this issue, I’m sorry to say.
>Lindsay, I give you a LOT of credit for discussing this. I choose not to discuss politics OR religion on my blog. It gets too many panties in a bunch. Some just can’t respect that we all have different opinions on different subjects. I never mind someone who wants to have a friendly debate, but I can’t stand when anyone feels the need to belittle someone because they might believe in something or someone else.
>My contribution: I really don’t like it when people call out liberals for not being “tolerant.” I don’t have to tolerate bigotry. I don’t have to tolerate warmongering. I don’t have to tolerate fiscal ineptitude. A word like “tolerance” should be reserved for characteristics that people cannot choose or change. But I don’t feel the least bit bad for thinking someone who hates gay people, or who wants to bomb a country who never attacked ours, or who claims fiscal wisdom while running our deficit into the trilions, is wrong. “Tolerating” those kinds of attitudes is part of what got our country into the mess it’s in in the first place. (steps off soapbox)
>How about me? Can you be tolerant of me and the fact that my opinions are different from yours?
>Lindsay–Thanks for such a thoughtful and detailed response, and thanks for linking to the post I was trying to remember. Now I can look it over… sorry if the way I remembered it was inaccurate. I really wasn’t trying to make a dig at you or pigeonhole you, I was just curious about your family and other stuff that went into your decision besides watching the debates.
>Wah!Thanks for leading me to this in one of your previous posts:”I was raised to believe that Democrats were the scourge of the earth…”Not a good way to plead your case for tolerance.
>Oops, you forgot the rest of the sentence: “…but I loathe the Republican Party, too.”
>Although, in re-reading my original post, I guess it’s a little demanding for a stranger to want to know the intricate details of your history to determine why you think the way you do, and then demand a justification for those thoughts… geez. Now you know what it’s like to be famous!
>I agree with Fay, you said it better than I could have. and in response to your (Lindsay’s) response to that: How about me? Can you be tolerant of me and the fact that my opinions are different from yours?I don’t know if Fay or anyone could answer that question because you haven’t really given us your opinions other than you like McCain. Your article was mostly generalities, so we don’t know what specific opinions you had that led you to align with campaign. And regardless, what exactly is your definition of tolerant? Am I allowed to think you are wrong? That you are misguided? Misinformed? That you have different values than me? What exactly am I allowed feel about other people’s opinions? The fact is that your opinion affects me. Your vote affects me. So I get to have an opinion, I think. And because it affects me, I get to be upset about it. I get to think you’re wrong–I think. You can do the same for me and my opinions. In my opinion, intolerance is thinking a person is nothing but one trait (i.e. oh no she is voting for mccain therefore she is a bad mother/wife/person/i hate her forever and ever). Intolerance is kicking a person out of your life for one trait. Intolerance is seeking to eradicate all people with that trait (rather than trying to persuade change). I’m not saying the people who called you names were right. But it seems the vibe here has become one where passion and anger are unacceptable emotions.
>Rosie13579–Hitler really? Now McCain is the likes of Hitler? Doubt it. A little dramatic, aren’t we?
>I don’t quite understand all the hullaballoo. Not yours, but people who have an inability to run their thoughts through some sort of filter, or you know, like a brain.I have an opinion, a strong one in fact. I will vote for Obama, my mind has been made up for some time now. I don’t find him to be perfect (though we did attend the same college, so dude’s got good taste), but he more closely follows my ideals. I’m not voting for him because he’s a Democrat, I’m not voting for him because he’s a better debate, I’m voting for him because I believe he’ll be a better president. But that’s my opinion and I don’t expect or require anyone else to agree with it. I love how self-righteous people are, like their doing the democratic party some great deed by bashing you and McCain supporters. I’m sure Obama is at home thinking to himself, I hope a bunch of people will verbally berate a blogger for saying she’d vote for McCain. That will TOTALLY change all their minds! Mwa ha ha.Seriously y’all. Grow up.
>I was thinking how brave (or masochistic) you were to even bring this subject up. There’s no better way to unleash the arrogant vitriol in some, than to admit you’re thinking of voting republican.To me, more than whether or not people agree politically, it is the unabashed, disrespectful arrogance that gets me. The elitist assumption that anyone who disagrees with this group of people must surely be, A) Ignorant B) Misinformed C)Feeble minded, or my favorite and the most hypocritical of them all, D)Closed minded.For a mind set that is supposedly so accepting and progressive and tolerant, the pure black and white way in which they view our country is so odd to me.
>Oh Lar, I totally agree with you. I was also very offended by the comment that anyone who would even think of voting for a candidate other than Obama couldn’t possibly “get it.” Comments like that are clearly designed to insult the intelligence of people who disagree.
>It shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone that many, many people are very passionate about politics right now, especially with the mess the economy is in and with the presidential election happening in less than a month. I think if any well-known blogger decides to announce who she is supporting, she has to know she’ll get a barrage of comments, some polite and some not. It’s just hard to talk about politics without getting heated up.Personally, I would have been very surprised if you had announced that you were supporting Obama, Lindsay. Not that there’s anything wrong with it, but I have gotten a decidedly conservative vibe from you from reading your blogs.
>I would just like to say that my post was never meant to be political. I was just disappointed that someone who I (still) really like obviously believes in different things than me.That’s all.And now I’m being used as an example of political intolerance?Which is ironic, for so many reasons. I don’t mean this to be confrontational, but I wonder if you are a regular reader of my blog, or if you just read that one post?I would also like to point out that I am not a registered Democrat. In fact I think most people who read my blog would be surprised to hear some of my political beliefs.I have tried really hard to educate my self about both candidates. This is the first election I’ve been through as a parent, and it has made me very passionate.I am not some mindless supporter who can never see when the other guy makes a good point. I feel like I am being forced to talk about politics when all I was really trying to say was that I was disappointed.People are getting so worked up and hurtful (on both sides)and it is so unnecessary.You are very brave to write about politics. I obviously don’t have the stomach for it.
>I can’t find most of the direct quotes now so I stand corrected on this issue. Here are the only two links I can find and both of these reference his health and age issues.http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-debateside8-2008oct08,0,4755608.storyhttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/body-language-speaks-volumes-in-nashville-955225.html
>Jerri Ann,”John McCain’s gimpy arms are the result of 5 and 1/2 years in a North Vietnamese prison camp, during which time he suffered multiple fractures to his right arm and a dislocated left shoulder. McCain also had a bayonet shoved in his left leg, but that injury does not seem to effect his current debate performances.On the humorous side – if there is a humorous side to prison camp torture… a senior adviser to the McCain campaign remembers a moment at the 2000 Republican convention when President Bush raised John McCain’s hand in the air to signify victory. McCain’s victory smile quickly turned to a grimace of pain.”
>I did indeed find much about his disability and found nothing of the links I told you that I read originally. I know I look like an idiot but I know I did not dream this up, however, the places I read it may have been more than one to retract some of what they said about McCain and this issue because I did find several of those. Also, I don’t see anything humorous about his experiences either. I wish I had found the information before I posted like a responsible blogger would do. But, I didn’t and I am not ashamed to say that what you have provided here makes more sense than plain “body language” reading skills. As I said in my second post, I stand corrected. That doesn’t change my opinion or who I will vote for, but it does mean I will be much more careful before I post again, I’ll find the links first next time. Lesson learned.
>Hi Lindsay: I think what makes this blog different from all the other ones I visit is that I feel like I identify with you in so many ways. Our two youngest children are the same age, we both hate snobby mommy culture, we let our kids watch TV (within reason), and we both make time for the gym. That said, you are a much better housekeeper than I am and seem generally better at holding a complicated home operation together. The point is, I really like the part of you that you share on your blog. So I think I was just hoping that we would have a more similar view of the current political situation.I’m truly excited about Obama—more excited than I have been about any candidate in my lifetime. I feel inspired and confident that this country will be in a better place—and not just for people like me (people making under $100,000—does that make me middle class?) in 4-8 years if he wins. I’m currently writing a book that includes a chapter on mommyblogging so someday, when this election is over, I look forward to talking to you about how things are going—no matter who wins! Take care, Kathy
>I totally respect your choice as I said on BlogHer the other day. The point of debates is to get to know the candidates better and if you feel like McCain would be a better leader then that is your right. What I am somewhat bothered by is your linking to Torrie’s post and calling her angry and bitter. I think that she was neither but doing just as you said; sharing her point of view and saying that she was surprised by what this gentleman said. She didn’t say that she would never speak to him again or making some harsh judgment about him; she was expressing her dismay. Frankly this whole election process is driving me insane and I cannot wait for it to be over. Also, I don’t write about politics not because I’m afraid of what others might say to me but because it’s my job and I have an entirely different point of view.
>True. It was a poor choice of words, because I didn’t believe that Torrie in particular was angry and bitter; the post was just an excellent example of a blogger allowing a person’s choice of candidate affect how she felt about that person personally. And Torrie certainly isn’t alone in doing this- I’m seeing it everywhere, online and off. It just makes me really sad, even though I acknowledge that she was really brave to write about it at all.Thanks for bringing that up, Heather- I’m going to change the wording of that paragraph.Torrie, I definitely didn’t mean to offend you and I apologize for my crappy wording.
>I just read your newspaper article, and found it to be very honest and articulate. Even though I am an ardent Obama supporter, I like the way you think and analyze things in a rational manner. Thank you.
>perhaps re-evaluate what you are doing supporting a party known for its toleranceHear freaking hear.I’m still undecided myself, and given the immense amount of thought I’ve put into this race (not to mention my own beliefs), the derision from folks who ardently support one candidate or the other is getting extremely wearisome.Giving an important decision much consideration is laudable, not laughable.
>I cant believe people would attack you for having a view of your own. Im voting MCain I would never get rude with someone just because they liked Obama better. I mean thankfully we live in a country where we have a choice. I cant believe one of the posters brought up Mccains jerky hand movements. Wow thats all I am going to say. Oh except for this you rock! I would even say that if you liked Obama better..Oh have you seen the cinderella guy latley? I remember being 1 up front at a concert and he looked right at me. lol
>that should have been 15..
>Both parties have “lowered the bar” on their candidate choices. That’s just the way it is, and will remain, until voters start to push back against both party apparatus. And that means holding incumbents accountable for their actions and inactions.Sad but true, your last blog entry demonstrated that a party portrayed as “tolerant” is full of intolerance. That demonstration came through with readers’ very intolerant comments about your opinion and position. A few readers of yours need a good look in the mirror, before they cast stones at you.
>Lindsey–It’s amusing to me that some pro-Obama commenters are questioning whether or not your affiliations (your father, husband, etc.) are going to influence your vote.But we’re not allowed to believe that Obama’s past affiliations may have affected him–his pastor for 18 years, the domestic terrorist he had at least some association with, the fact that he went to a Muslim school for a short time as a child,…I’m also looking at McCain’s past both good and bad: his years in the POW camp, his divorce, his association with those in the Keating scandal.I also laughed when I read that in your house growing up that Democrats were so thoroughly scorned. It was the opposite in mine. My father never forgave my mother for persuading him to vote for Eisenhower in ’56! He accused her of using her feminine wiles against him. (It was a mixed marriage in the political sense.) My father was extremely outspoken about Republicans being scum during all my formative years. My mother didn’t say much about politics, but I know their votes usually cancelled each other out.To this day, I can’t discuss politics with my extreme left-wing 80-year-old father. It hurts him that his 40-something daughter disagrees with him sometimes. Maybe it would be easier if I was 100% democratic or 100% republican. Then I would know for sure who to vote for on November 4th.
>Lindsay, you’re allowed to have your own opinion…you’re allowed to express it everywhere…and people are allowed to disagree with you. They have their own opinions too, you see.I don’t know what your definition of tolerance is. It seems to mean “putting down someone” I’m not really sure what that means. But disagreeing with you or rethinking their opinion of who you are because of a position you take is not intolerant.
>Why is it so wrong that people take politics personally? I think “allowing a person’s choice of candidate affect how she felt about that person personally” is inevitable because your choice tells others essential things about yourself, things inseparable from your humanity. It’s not just politics when you’re talking about life, and unborn children, and freedom, and the future of the planet.
>I think tolerance actually IS allowing others to have an opinion or belief without resorting to insulting them about it. You would not approve of a Christian insulting a Jew or a Muslim because of his or her beliefs. Why then is it okay for a Democrat to insult a Republican because of his or her beliefs? (And I am absolutely NOT saying I’m a Republican, mind you!)Most of the commenters were able to state their opinions without resorting to insults. A few weren’t. It makes me sad. Why wouldn’t it?
>The problem remains that we must vote one party or another. Oh, I’m not naive in thinking we can just blow up the party system, but Washington warned against political parties. Too many important issues get delegated to each party putting the voters at odds with themselves and causing them to prioritize their issues. How does a person choose which issues of social justice are most important when lives hang in the balance. Unfair, is all I gotta say.
>Heh.Lindsay, your post responding to Nicola at 3:33 p.m. reminded me of this past week’s episode of The New Adventures of Old Christine “White Like Me,” where she was all of a sudden afraid she was racist. And was explaining all of the reasons why she couldn’t be racist: she’s a Democrat, she drives a Prius and she doesn’t even know what color it is!And when her friend tries to reassure her that she’s not, Christine says it would make because she came from a long line of racists.Funny episode. You should watch it:http://www.cbs.com/primetime/old_christine/
>I am so sorry that so many people chose to attack you for expressing your opinion. It seems to me that people forget that the ability to express differing opinions is one of the things that make our country great. I, personally, am not sure who I will vote for. I have friends who are quite passionate for both sides. This is part of what makes them unique and I would never think less of them for having an opinion that might be different from mine. That would be as crazy as a protestant hating a Catholic for having a different belief system. Oh, wait…
>Like so many things in this nation, the two party system was set up for a good reason- to encourage debate and look at issues from two sides of the fence with the idea of meeting in the middle of said fence It is finding a compromise so we can still shake hands like neighbors ought. Unfortunately, it has become an excuse for self-interest, power plays and has become a divisive tool rather than a meeting of the minds. As seen in this blog, there are those who can vehemently diagree in a respectful manner but there are still too many who embrace the baser human instinct for mudslinging and toss it under the guise of “passionate beliefs”. It is fitting and well that we should all believe passionately, of course, but let us not forget that we are all still neighbors with but a fence between us.Finding common ground so that we can still shake hands across that fence is so incredibly important and come election day, I would like to vote for the person that will most often lead us to that middle ground. At the end of the day, shouldn’t we be a country united? Or have we become instead The Divided States of America?
>heheh…Lindsay, you sure like stepping in the poo around here don’t you?? I love it. And in this regard respect you for opening yourself up like that. I get what you’re going for. Learning from others whose perspective is different than mine has influenced me politically this year beyond a shadow of a doubt. I tell my children two things. One? Anyone who is so completely sure that their way is the only right way is not very smart. Two? Real freedom means standing up for another person’s rights to believe something you might not agree with and may even hate. I hope they understand that their difference from someone else does not equate to them not being worth your friendship. (You may even learn from them) And I hope they know that someone’s fundamental beliefs are not on par with being not human enough to be your friend or even being stupid or “Hitler” (What the hell?) What kind of “tolerance” is that? That sounds just as bad as the person who would damn someone to hell for daring to think a gay couple should be allowed to legally wed in our country. “Bigotry should be “tolerated” so long as it’s what I believe in.” Riiight. And while we’re on the subject? I loathe the word “tolerance” and all it implies. What you vote for, Lindsay, is your right and I respect your RIGHT to vote with your beliefs and realize that it is not personally directed at someone who does not agree with you. I appreciate your willingness to tell me why you feel the way you do because it helps me further and learn my own views. But noo toleration needed from me. It’s your RIGHT. And mine.I’m voting independent this year. If the bailout votes proved to me anything it’s that both Dems and Reps couldn’t give a damn less what this voter wanted. (or what most wanted according to CNN’s poll) But more importantly, I really am missing where and how they have any rights to do what they did. I respect that there may be such a law or rule out there that gives them the right to buy banks and insurance companies on my dime while trying to pass it off as “greater good”. But I’d really like a gander at it before I believe it exists. I won’t be “throwing my vote away” with a party I feel can’t remember their “representative” roll. But more power to those that don’t agree with me.Good luck, Lindsay, finding where you would like to direct your vote. It’s awesome that you would try to take in more view points before you totally make up your mind.
>They both scare the hell out of me. I wish there were more than 2 political parties to choose from…no, seriously.I am totally considering throwing out my vote this time around. In my opinion, it’s a no wind situation and we’re screwed no matter what….I like your blog 🙂
>Wow – those comments were harsh. If it’s not a difficult decision for a person then they’re probably not really thinking about it. Neither candidate is perfect.
>I think you should stick to writing about cookies, moms’ nights out, the mommy cliques and other mundane, overwrought topics.
>I am guessing someone else asked if you watched the same debate as they because while I did wonder (and come back to clarify my comment), I certainly didn’t qualify my with “I doubt you were undecided after all”.However, I am much too lazy to go and scroll through 100+ comments, so I’ll stick with my assumption.
>& because everyone is touchy let me clarify (again with the clarification!) that my above comment was not meant to be nasty/judgmental/insulting.
>I love how you don’t like my blog, but you clearly read it anyway. That’s true dedication. And it proves that my experimental mind control technique IS WORKING.
>And Kristin, my last comment wasn’t addressed to you. It was to my ‘Anonymous’ loyal reader.No, that wasn’t your comment in the post above, nor was I offended by your comment. Several people said ‘Wow. Did we watch the same debate?’ actually. Only one person followed it up with “I doubt you were ‘undecided’ at all.”
>Ah, Lindsay, I love you… I didn’t want you to think I was being a passive aggressive commenter.