>In Which I Bizarrely and for No Good Reason Take Up the Immigration Debate
>The driver’s license testing station in my town resembles a teeming international bazaar. At any given time, about half of the hundreds of people milling about are from another country. Hearing the sounds that roll off their tongues is fascinating. Standing behind them in line, well, that’s another story.
I took my 15-year-old stepdaughter to get her learner’s permit yesterday and we ended up in line with three women from another country. Where they were from doesn’t matter. The point is that their inability to speak English was seriously hindering their efforts to get one of the women a driver’s license.
15 and I were handing over our paperwork to the clerk when one of the group of women showed up beside me. Apparently, she hadn’t understood that their number had been called and had missed her turn. The clerk tried to help both of us at once.
“Tell your friend to read line six on the vision test,” she said, pointing at the eye testing machine on the counter. The woman translated for her friend, who put her eyes to the machine and stood silently.
“Line six,” the clerk repeated.
“A. R. D…” the woman began hesitantly.
“No, line six,” the clerk said again. “Tell her line six. The bottom line.”
Again, the friend tried to translate. The woman tried again.
“A. R. D…”
“No, no,” the clerk said, clearly annoyed, and drew a quick diagram on a post-it note. “Line six. The bottom line.”
“Oh, oh!” The woman said. “Six! Yes!” She peered into the machine again.
“1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6!” she said triumphantly.
The clerk sighed.
“I can’t give her a driver’s license if she can’t complete the eye exam,” she told the friend. The women conferred some more. Finally, the woman looked into the machine one more time and read the entire exam aloud. Eventually, she got to line six.
It took some time, but eventually, the group of women made their way through the rest of the process and helped their friend get a license.
And since it took them some time, it took us some time. A lot more time than it should have. Looking around, I could see this was happening over and over again at several different desks. The clerks were stuck explaining rules and regulations in English to people who didn’t understand a word they were saying.
“I’m sorry I got irritated,” the clerk apologized to me after the women had moved on to another part of the building.
“Um. If I were you, I’d be ripping my hair out,” I said. She laughed weakly.
I hear a lot of arguing over the immigration debate and whether everyone should be required to learn English and I try to stay out of it. I’ve got enough problems teaching my own kids to speak plain English, let alone the rest of the nation.
If asked, I would say I don’t have a problem with immigrants who come to the United States and don’t learn English. Hypothetically, that’s true. But I feel a lot different when I’m forced to wait two hours in line largely because many of the others ahead of me can’t understand what they’re supposed to do or where they’re supposed to go. And when I watch a woman who doesn’t have the barest grasp of the English language get a driver’s license and I know she’s going to be on the same roads as my 15-year-old, I have to be honest. It worries me.
And then I feel guilty because I got irritated and then irritated because I feel guilty.
>Both of my gradparents were illegal immigrants.In their lifetime, that was cause for shame.NOWADAYS, it’s “normal”.It bugs me that some of my daughters classmates don’t speak a word of English.It REALLY pisses me off when I have to order my kids’ food in spanish at McDonald’s.And it REALLY angers me how much illegal immigrations costs us: Medicaid, food stamps, free lunches at school, the list is endless.I am not heartless, just practical. I wouldn’t expect a free ride if I broke the law and slipped into Mexico (where I did live as a teenager…)Enough is enough….It boils down this: enforce the law. I am done now….:)
>Have you seen that 30 Days show on FX? They had a great on on illegal immigrants a few weeks ago. Very educational.This topic has gotten as touchy as abortion in this country. I personally think that English is the national language and people should be expected to know that here. I have no problem with speaking another language in the home too. But, as you witnessed, if you only speak another language it makes it difficult both for you and the rest of our society to function. Here in Texas, we see this a WHOLE lot.
>It frightens me too that they are driving on the roads with our teenagers. I would have been frustrated too after waiting in line for so long.
>I would not feel bad. As a teenager, my brother was in a bad wreck with a bunch of illegal immigrants. When the paramedics arrived, he was having a seizure. The illegals were unable/unwilling to talk to the police to tell them if he had been seizing prior to the accident (i.e. causing the accident or if the accident caused the seizures. They were not insured and I don’t know if they were licensed or not. After the wreck, they disappeared into thin air. My brother still has seizures to this day, and that piece of information would have helped him and his doctors.
>If I were to move to a foreign nation I whould make DARN sure I a) emigrated legally andb) learned the language and culture.No ifs, ands or buts.
>Also, I was wondering how your teenagers feel about you writing about them on this blog. I’m not trying to criticize. I just remember being 15 and if my mother had had a blog, I would have been mortified. Just curious.
>My teenagers know I have a blog and are entirely uncurious. But I am on my blog who I am in real life- a little irreverant and wacky- so what I write would not come as any surprise to them. I try to write with them in mind as adults. If it’s something they would understand and empathize with when they’re closer to my age, then I’m absolutely not ashamed to write about it now. But that’s also my approach with them in real life. I said this over on Amy Storch’s Club Mom blog, though- that honestly, for every one story I’ve written about them, there have been 10 I’ve been unable to write, because of their sensitivity as teenagers.
> when I watch a woman who doesn’t have the barest grasp of the English language get a driver’s license and I know she’s going to be on the same roads as my 15-year-old, I have to be honest. It worries me.Sorry, I don’t get this. The irritation with your wasted time? Sure. The impatience? Perfectly natural. But why does that woman’s incompetence in English equal incompetence in driving in your mind? She passed the eye test, didn’t she? On the road she’ll be dealing with lights and signs whose colors, shapes, and meanings are international. And I never heard that non-English speakers can’t operate automobiles properly. I think you’ve let your completely justifiable annoyance send you into overprotective overdrive.
>This won’t be a popular comment, but if a person can’t speak English they have no business with a driver’s license!
>I could pass an eye exam in Paris, but chances are much, much higher that I would get in a car accident if I tried to drive there. Because I don’t know the language.And yes, I know plenty of Americans go overseas and drive around in strange countries in which they don’t know the language and if I lived there, that would make me nervous, too.
>It is not a question of illegal (that is an entirely different debate) it is not learning the language. Sorry, but I have to agree that not knowing the language is an impediment. Highways here post warning signs that motorist need to heed. It is just cost effective to have an official language.
>You don’t have to be in Texas to experience this, crazy momcat! Immigrants are all over the place. As open-minded as I claim to be, I get irked at this very thing. I know, it’s a big country with lots to learn. But if you are going to take the time to move here, why not learn the language and teach it to your kids? WHY do I have to feel like a bad person for thinking this? I don’t want anyone to give up their culture or their identity, just learn to fit into their adopted country!
>I normally work in an area with a VERY high (nearly all) immigrant populations, so I think I might be seeing this from a slightly different angle. Here’s my thinking:- I agree with nm that language is not equvalent to driving skill. If they drove well in their country, they’ll be fine. If they drove horribly there, they will here too – but so do plenty of US-born folks. – I do agree that learning a language and integrating into your new country is important. But it also takes time, a long time for some, especially older people. – A driver’s license, along with an SSN and a library card, is one of the first stops for a new citizen, so you are likely seeing people who are very new. I think most of them will indeed learn, but it takes a while. – Because it takes time, I think it’s difficult to make it a requirement. Most peple leave their country for a reason – war, famine, political upheaval – that is timely, and waiting to learn a new language is just not really a viable option. All that said, I repeat that I certainly do agree that learning the language should be a goal. Maybe a final hurdle to get from provisional to official immigration status, but I don’t think it should be a cutoff to keep people from entering because I see it as something we should help newcomers with. It’s not easy – think bakc to high school french/spanish/whatever.
>Yes. I’m with you. I think hypothetical is one thing, and reality is quite another. But the worst thing of all is not really knowing what to think. Your last line was perfect.
>Kittenpie,Thank you for being a voice of reason and not letting this go down the slippery slope of “anti-immigrant” (i.e. blaming all the ills in this country on latinos) rants.(Not that Lucinda’s post was anti-latino, it’s just that people tend to go there really quickly and for no reason at all)As an American of Latin American descent who speaks English, Spanish, and French fluently, but who is having a hell of a time learning German I second that your last line. I married into an Austrian family and I feel obligated to learn German out of respect of my child’s second country and because someday we may live there. It’s not easy. I’m trying, but I have much more sympathy for recent immigrants.I wonder how many of the people who say “why don’t they just learn English?” actually speak another language.
>I wonder how many of the people who say “why don’t they just learn English?” actually speak another language.I speak English. I can speak Spanish a little since I spent a large portion of my life in South Texas and I was surrounded by Mexicans. Yes, Mexicans! Mexican citizens who would cross the border every day for whatever reasons…all I would hear was Spanish. I was turned down for many jobs in my own damn country because I didn’t speak Spanish. It doesn’t really matter what languages I speak since I live in the United States.If you want to live in the US…learn English. I wouldn’t expect the people of another country to all learn English as a second language just to accommodate me I were to move to their country.
>Wow, I feel quite strongly about this issue but I don’t wish to take it up in a comment for fear of looking trollish. The immigration debate and the national language debate are two distinct issues that seem to get a bit muddled in the discussion. Thanks for provoking some thoughts – I think I’ll take this up on the Poop Deck soon.
>The reason I don’t move to Italy is because I know I can’t get by with naming pasta all day long.The reason I don’t interview for a computer programmer job is because I have a law degree, and I don’t speak that “language.” And I don’t expect a computer programmer to know words like res judicata and collateral estoppel. It is called courtesy. Plain and simple. I think you were ticked because you had to wait behind someone who clearly wasn’t prepared for the task at hand.
>Steamy debate…and everyone so well spoken. It is sometimes hard to understand the feelings we have. Your last two lines were very honest. Anne
>I am an American living in Japan, and before than Italy. We have driven all over Europe, Japan, Egypt, Kenya, China and do not speak any language other than English. I have to say that I have no idea how language effects driving. The signs, are the same everywhere, and you have to understand the meaning of signs to pass the driving test. I also think that in my opinion Americans are the absolutely worst drivers in the world, very aggressive etc. It is hard when we are in the States to re-acclimate to the American culture of aggressive driving. American drivers scare the shit out of me.I guess I am making up for all the immigrants in America that are annoying everyone with their inability to speak English, by living and traveling all over the world and not being able to speak anything but English. You would be surprised to learn how much of communication is non-verbal and international. I have to say that people in these countries have always been kind and understanding, perhaps all the mean and nasty comments are said to me with a smile and I am blissfully unaware. I grocery shop and don’t have a clue what the cashier says to me, I just give her some money and smile. I fly from one foreign country to another, go through immigrations, hand them my papers and smile. I order food in restaurants, point and smile. Basically I can say, good morning, excuse me and thank you. Aren’t you all glad to have me as your representative here in Japan. All the Japanese people look at me and think, this is what Americans are like.
>I should have added this line to my comment (my son is sick and I had to go get him):”If they’ve made the effort to learn another language, they would understand that it takes time.”It takes time, people. Learning any language takes time, and the only way to truly learn a language is by full immersion amongst native speakers.
>Esta muy enchilada sobre tutto, comprendevous?Me neither.
>I just don’t have much to say. I’m awe struck. But yay! Learner’s Permit!
>I second the YAY! for the learners permit. I too would like people living here to speak English. Dare I say it costs us money when they don’t? But I would also like American to switch to the metric system. Could someone take care of that for me please?
>English is my first language by the way and I am from AmericA not AmericAN!
>Okay, I tried, I truly tried to stay out of this one. Since my youngest is 15. Thank God she hasn’t pressed the issue of a permit yet. Why I don’t know. I’m sure it’s coming. Everyone is probably going to hate me now. Like I care.Okay, there are signs on the road, in ENGLISH. I am a RN, I see lots of Trauma patients, and guess who the majority of them are lately?????????? Mexican. I have to use a special translator phone to talk to them, cuz, not one knows a lick of english. Since we are privy to how they got in a MVA. 99% of the time it’s their fault. Or it was tree vs. driver. Or they ditch vs. driver. More often then not they’ve taken someone else out with them. You know not many mexicans drive even in Mexico. Where you grew up watching your parents drive, driving dirt roads back fields. Many have not even touch a wheel before they walk in for that permit.I had the same experience Lucinda had, when my son who is now married and has his own son got his permit. Which says how long this has been going on.I embrace diversity. I also think common sense and brains should come into play. Before reality of the situation has to SMACK americans in the face!Are this womans friends going to be in the car to help her drive, EVERY time???? I don’t think so. Do you think she’ll get as many chances as she had on that eye test to make out the correct sign or turn???? Do you want it to be your child on the road with her when her friends aren’t telling her how to drive???I deal with residents, yes, doctors who could take care of you someday, who I can’t understand. They are from every country imaginable, they don’t know english. I watch them listening to their Attending giving them directions on what to order, how to care for a patient. I see them shaking their heads like they are getting it. I know damn well, they aren’t understanding a freakin word! But yeah, that surgical resident will be the one cutting on you, and that attending will be giving him directions in the OR. Sure go ahead chance it!This is not about political correctness. This is not about race. This is about Safety! It’s about common sense! Everyone is so freaking walking on eggshells scared to say. “Hey” we got a problem here. To many people who can’t communicate when needed, life depends on it! Why?Why???????? Because we don’t want to be hated, or looked down upon for demanding those living here to care ENOUGH about their fellow man to know the language, to be able to communicate, to do their jobs.You don’t even wanna go there with me on how these doctors WRITE the english language. Sorry for the rant Lucinda dear. But I feel much better now!
>This is the point where I ask if you’ve got good luggage. So do you?Then pack your bags for the guilt trip you’re sending youself on.Relax. What if the person in front of you in line understood English but was taking their sweet time getting it done? Or maybe a single mom with a squirmy toddler, trying to get her license. Wouldn’t you still be irritated that you have to wait? I would.
>Experienced similar scenario visiting the DMV while living Miami…interestingly, one clerk got so frustrated with an elderly gentleman he was trying to no avail coax through the eye exam he finally gave up and said “fine, you pass, go to the next window…yikes!
>It would worry me too….how are they supposed to read road signs? You never said, did 15 get her permit?
>She got it. It was her second try. I had practically bullied her into reading the driver’s manual backwards and forwards, since she has to have her learner’s for at least six months before she can drive on her own and it is selfishly very important me that she can drive herself to and from school safely by the time I have the baby!
>I couldn’t agree more, mysteriouslady!
>There are a lot of incompetent drivers on the road, some are crazy, English-speaking bicyclists who think that they don’t need to follow the rules, some are irresponsible teenagers, some are drunk and some are senile, some are talking on their cell phones, some are paying attention to their kids, some are filled with rage and want to take it out on everyone else. I think that new US citizens are the least of our worries when it comes to driving.That being said, hooray that 15 passed her test! Now, tell her to BE CAREFUL out there! :)Carrie
>While I agree that the language ought to be learned before attempting driver’s tests, I’m not sure that they have much of a choice in doing so before fleeing their own countries. Some of these people leave some horrible, like-threatening situations. Perhaps if we embraced more newcomers, they wouldn’t turn against us in our country. It’s been proven that the more Americans (and Canadians) help a newcomer, the less likely it is that they will be recruited into terrorism, because they are shown a love and loyalty for their new country if they are received well. Something to think about.Also, congrats on the learner’s permit! Woo hoo!
>Oops – I meant life-threatening…damn typos.
>I’m conflicted about this too, but my granola side wins.I’m OK with people who move here from other countries not learning to speak English. It’s their life; if they want to isolate themselves from a good part of our society, that is their choice. It is not the choice I would make, but it is theirs, not mine, when they move here.I do believe however that we shouldn’t have to pay for their choice – if they need a translator, they should have to pay.I LOVED the fact that our country did not have an official language (up until a few months ago). It is so welcoming and accepting – much like our constitution – and reminds us that all men (and women) are created equal.I also feel that if someone is an American citizen, or a legal immigrant, we can’t just let them die. Food stamps, free lunches and other forms of charity are there to make sure we help those who cannot help themselves. Yes, it is a system that some take advantage of, but the vast majority of people on welfare are on it for a few months, get their feet back on the ground, then are back working again. I don’t think immigrants are looking for a free ride. I think they are looking for a better chance for their families and for some freedom. They love America, too. I don’t put restrictions on what an American looks or sounds like.And I agree with NM’s stance on the driver’s license thing. If I visited a foriegn country, I would drive there – signs and symbols are universal.A thought to ponder: much of the world learns more than one language in grade school and the majority of the population can switch easily between 3 or 4 languages. I saw this in Europe. They judge Americans because very few of us speak any language other than English (including me, unfortunately).
>This is an interesting post. I did a little opinion/post on immigration a while back. Here it is:http://here-in-idaho.blogspot.com/2006_05_01_here-in-idaho_archive.htmlYikes! That didn’t paste well. I have to say that I usually side with the immigrants in this debate. Since we were all immigrants at one point. And our ancestors had to learn the language and learn the systems and probably caused some long, annoying lines themselves. But we benefit from their willingness to be unpopular and alienated for the chance of a better life. Check out my post for a lengthier explanation of my pro-immigrant stance.BTW, I’m from Tx, too. And I have mucho admiration for the immigrants.
>Oh my goodness, I think that we were behind their husbands last month when we were getting our licenses. I just can’t bring myself to understand why America needs to change our language to accomodate the immigrants that are coming in. I think that immigrants should be welcome here if they come legally. I also think that they should learn our language. If I were to move to another country it would be the same thing…when in rome…
>The english language is the universal language used by science worldwide. There’s something to be said for that.
>I went to live in Spain when I was seven. I had to learn the language. I had to make my way. Nobody did anything to help me – my parents got me tutors, but the Spanish gov. didn’t give a care if I was there or not. You came here, you learn the language, you learn the culture, you find a way to fit yourself in. That’s what I did. That’s what my family did. That’s what I think immigrants should do. Mr. Bug is an immigrant. He had to learn US history and promise to never ever go on the dole. Why doesn’t that apply today? My grandparents came in on the boat from Italy. They had to learn English. Nobody paid for Italian speaking teachers. Yada yada yada… My take on immigration:You come, you speak English, you stay off welfare, you fit in. Don’t make me pay for it.LBC
>Ah. My fellow Canadians, kittenpie and Karen, pretty much said what I was going to say.I’ll add this: it is not unreasonable to expect citizens, new or old, of one nation to work toward effective communication with fellow citizens, and this usually means learning a certain language (even in countries that are quote-unquote bilingual or multilingual – it is rare that you can speak either or any language freely whereever you go. Members of a community tend to settle upon one as the dominant means of communication.) But is also reasonable to expect that fellow citizens respect each others’ efforts in that regard, no matter how slow or frustrated those efforts might seem (where no efforts are being made, there is usually a problem. COnsider Canada’s serious difficulties in resolving the ‘two solitudes’ of French and English. Two nations on one land…)Having said all that… someone holds up my wait in line, I give them the stink-eye and curse ’em all to hell.I got stuff to do.
>Thank you for coming over to comment on my post, Lucinda (can I still call you that?). I understand the point that you are making. I’m glad you made your point and stirred up some conversation. It made me put on my thinking cap and that’s always a good thing.Cheers!
>The thing that worries me is—if they can’t understand the people at the DMV, how in the heck can they get in a car and DRIVE in this country!? And WHY are we allowing them to drive if they can’t understand directions?! I say, if you don’t understand it by the third or fourth time, you’re out. Bye bye–take the bus–have a nice day! BAH!Jody
>I just dislike BAD drivers. Inattentive, drunk, angry, too vain to wear corrective lenses, whatever. They all make the road unsafe.
>I live in a foreign country and I think the least I can do is become fluent in that country’s language in order to become a fully functioning citizen.
>Visiting any government office is going to mean a long, long, take-a-number-and-read-a-book, wait. I plan accordingly. If the book gets boring, the people-watching is always good, especially when folks start exhibiting symptoms of wait-rage. I actually like waiting. I like airport security lines and walk-in clinics, and I especially like going to Michigan’s Secretary of State to renew my plates, even though I could do it by mail. Any situation where I am not in control of how quickly things get accomplished is like a little vacation from having to control anything. When we can’t control what’s goin on in our environment, we can control our attitude.Sorry, but I think you kind of dropped the ball in terms of maintaining an accepting attitude, and then you took it out on others in this post. Sadly, many of your commenters latched onto the idea and took it even further.
>Anyone that follows immigration law and comes to this country LEGALLY, I have no issue with. It’s those that come illegally that I have HUGE issue with. When a district near me has 35 percent of their students with limited proficiency in English, you wonder how many aren’t legally enrolled in schools that citizen’s tax dollars pay for. And when a local hospital has to send a bill to the Mexican government for services rendered to Mexican citizens that couldn’t pay…I get mad.
>It pisses me off and I’m not ashamed nor do I feel guilty. If I moved to Germany and wanted to drive there, I would anticipate having to learn the language and understand enough to take and pass a test in that same language. Why is this unfair?Being bi-lingual is fantastic, but wherever you live, you have to be able to survive using the native tongue. To expect the world to turn upside down because you can’t or won’t learn is simply ridiculous. And to feel bad because you expect others to follow the same rules you expect to follow is insanity. Give yourself a break.
>I’ve driven all over the world and never known any language except Hello Goodbye and Thank you in the country I was driving/staying in. We never had an accident. I agree with Kittenpie. It takes time to learn the language.However, I think that lady should have had a phrase book with her, so she could understand what the clerk was trying to tell her.
>Many of these comments that harbor fear about immigrants make me very sad. I said this on Wendy Boucher’s blog, too:This is a very meaningful topic for me for two reasons- my M.A. is in Language Acquisition (which allowed me to teach ESL) and right now I currently work for a worldwide relocation company. Daily I directly deal with people who move here to the US from other countries, so I get a special glimpse at the realities of many who come here to learn our language and culture.My personal opinion is that if one is complaining about people not speaking English here and said person has not lived in another culture where the language is different, he or she has no leverage and that opinion is coming from an unenlightened place and has little merit. I know, it sounds terribly judgmental, but that’s how I feel about it. I feel this way because I’ve learned that the more we learn about others the more we understand why they are responding to life in a certain way.Aside from mastering a country’s language, you have to master their culture and bureaucracy. Someone at the DMV may have lovely conversational English but has no idea about the vocabulary that’s involved with a car, getting a license, the paperwork needed or registration. And to you this may look like they don’t have a grasp of the language, but if you had learned another language and all of the very specialized vocabulary that goes along with each and every thing you do (going to school, at work, dmv, grocery store, getting your utilities connected, buying a home, setting up a bank account, the list is never-ending), you would understand that it takes YEARS to become fluent in every way that a nonnative English speaker will touch your life. Many of these people work very hard to learn about the US and English just so that they can make it through the day.And if you are annoyed with the people who are encroaching on your everyday lives, have you ever thought about volunteering to teach or tutor English? I think that you would find the students are much more dedicated than typical American students and you would feel a great sense of satisfaction. Oh, and you can always suggest that your students make you food from their country for extra credit. That alone is well worth the effort!
>Interesting debate.Hooray for the Learner’s Permit!Remind her that cellphone use while driving is even worse than drinking and driving. And much more common nowadays.
>I like to think that I’m a very liberal minded person when it comes to topics like this, especially since my great grandparents were immagrants (legally of course). However, after my now-husband and I were rear-ended by someone who was here illegally and he disappered and wasn’t held accountable for the three car pileup he caused, I’ve since changed my mind. The hubbie and I to this day still have some residual health issues from this accident(I had 4 broken bones). Anyway, to make a long story short, I have since come to conclusion that if you are going to come to America than you should maybe make an effort to know some of the language. I wouldn’t expect Germany to change all of their signs to have a German and an English version just for me. If I’m going to go to a foriegn country wether to live or to just visit, I would make an effort to learn the language. And I wouldn’t expect the German gov. to pay for it. I’m all for people trying to make life better for themselves and for their families, but why is it at our expense? My great grandparents came and took care of their own. Why can’t people today? When did we become too liberal? God, I never thought I would say that, much less put it on the world wide web!!
>On the road she’ll be dealing with lights and signs whose colors, shapes, and meanings are international. Except on the turnpike, where all the signs are green and oblong and written in English. I live in touristland, and I can’t tell you how many near-accidents are caused by people wandering from lane to lane because they have no f*cking clue where they’re going, and they CAN read the signs.Why does someone getting a driver’s license need to understand the language? Ummm, to read the driver’s manual (which admittedly not enough Americans do either)?Traffic lights in Britain turn yellow before they turn green as well as before turning red. This is not “universal.”According to Rick Steves, “Europe is a continent of frustrated racecar drivers. The most dangerous creature on the road is the timid American.” He also advises you to “learn the signs.” If they were “universal,” you’d already know them, no?And for those of you who claim to drive in foreign countries and have no problems, are you actually *acquiring a license* in those countries, or are you simply allowed to drive a rental car because you already have a license from the States?I live in a place that welcomes immigrants from Somalia, and while I’m glad we can provide refuge, there are nevertheless communication problems, especially for those whose language does not use our alphabet. In that case, it’s not simply a matter of learning a language with similar word forms.There is also road culture. I don’t think Somalia has a well-developed interstate system, and it shows in the way the people drive.A car can be a lethal weapon. I think in that case everything possible should be done to ensure that licensed drivers have the skills to operate one. It’s just common sense. It shouldn’t be left to a harrassed clerk at a DMV office to decide who does and doesn’t pass the tests.And for the person who “likes to wait,” how ’bout passing round some of those meds you’re on?
>Happy to see this debate has, for the most part, steered clear of Mindless stereotypes and political rhetoric. Yes, many in here understand that the best way to learn a language is immersion. Interacting with others will speed up the process, and everybody wins. This cannot happen in an atmosphere poisoned by people who insist on smearing those least able to fight back. It’s why the politicians have turned on undocumented immigarnts, they think it’s politically safe to do so. It may be for a few more years. Their children are registering to vote in record numbers….That said, I feel compelled to offer an explanation to those that say “why don’t they just do it the legal way?” The U.S. issues 5000 visas worldwide each year. Thats it. So, the waiting period for low-skilled worker from Mexico is approx 18 years. In short, there is no line to get in. Another nifty thing is that when we passed NAFTA, we insisted that Mexico remove Title II from it’s constituion, which allowed peasants to work govt owned land and grow crops. Not only were they not permitted to do so anymore, we then flooded their market with our cheap, subsidized corn, which left even the one’s with land unable to sustain themselves. It’s what you don’t know that gets ya every time…
>I was raised by an immigrant. My stepmother was Chinese, born and raised in China. Didn’t speak a word of English until she came to the United States, at which time she was a full grown woman. She then proceeded immediately to learn it, and after not too long spoke it, pronunciation and grammatical structure, better than most Americans. She never even had an accent. By the time I came onto the scene, she was the one teaching me to speak English. Perfectly. So…I am completely baffled when foreigners who intend to stay in this country claim they can not learn English. I’m just sayin’…
>”If you want to live in the US…learn English.” Touche’!I swear when I was in the DMV to get a replacement license I was the only english-speaking person there! Totally p’d me off!
>i agree with those who reminded us that becoming fluent in a language takes a long time; moreover, a specific situation requiring specific language is that much more difficult for a new speaker. i myself am often confused by language describing rules and regulations (DMV, health insurance, MIL’s medicaid, renting a car) and my family has been here since the Pilgrims. and yet i have often been in the wrong line, and it’s not for lack of trying to get it right. everything has a learning curve. i can only imagine what it must be like for someone who can read English, but who cannot yet “hear” it, in all it’s various quirky forms. Lord knows I have often been baffled by poorly-worded verbal instructions. Or by people who talk too fast. Or when i am nervous. And how many often does a native speaker say things such as ‘gonna’ and ‘shoulda’ and ‘watcha wanna do is…’ probably these and many other things we say are tricky to understand.Perhaps also the friend was a poor translator. The woman eventually read the entire exam aloud, right? it seemed to me (from the poster’s description) she did have fair amount of reading comprehension–just not the aural comprehension. that takes some time. i think the real issue might be: how to give a license to people who need it for ID, while at the same time making sure everyone is a decent driver. maybe there should be varying “degrees” of licensure. The ID level. The “been driving for 10 years” level. Or something. bad drivers are a worry. this includes some elderly people, distracted cell phone users, people who don’t understand signs, those who aren’t paying attention, those who are showing off, people who are having a crappy day, and those who are inexperienced (including teenagers). one writer made a comment about immigrants being on the road with “our teenagers.” i would rather not see any teens driving, actually. they are frequently not paying attention and, as you may know, their frontal lobes aren’t fully formed until their early twenties (and this affects various aspects of decision-making and comprehension.) so i feel like this debate raises several interesting issues:what can the gov’t do and what can we do as individuals to help immigrants (which we all were once) assimilate more easily; can the DMV (as one example) be made more efficient towards this end; and does the actual driving test need to be more stringent so ALL inappropriate drivers aren’t on the road until qualified?Both the daughter and the woman were at the DMV for the learner’s permit, right? i would hope that both would need to be qualified before getting the license. otherwise i don’t want to see either of them on the road. if someone can’t understand signage, then that person shouldn’t be driving. if someone has to be forced to study the manual, maybe that person doesn’t yet fully understand the responsibility involved in operating a motor vehicle. I agree that people who move here should make an effort to learn the language. But I also wonder if we should all be taught other languages during our school years. As someone rightly pointed out, Europe is full of people who speak not just one but usually several other languages. Why? because it makes interacting with others easier (and more interesting). Government employees in other countries routinely speak several languages. Perhaps that should be the same here. That way the Spanish-speakers can get in line at the counter that has a bilingual clerk. Generally immigration happens in waves, from particular countries. Would it be so hard to meet people partway by being able to say a few helpful phrases in their language? Lastly, one person commented on seeing the potential beauty in waiting. I often wonder how best to spend our time on this earth. The only thing I have been able to come up with so far is “be kind and be happy.” And yes, lines can be a hassle and classmates who don’t speak english can be a drag and ordering in spanish can be uncomfortable OR…it could all be interesting. it depends on how you look at it and personally, i’d rather feel i had an interesting day or i learned something new or now i have a funny story to tell because it is actually overall easier to feel those things than feel angry or irritated or out-of-sorts. i don’t look at situations and feel all delighted. I often feel annoyed or overwhelmed and then i try to change that feeling. and that doesn’t always work but i swear it’s better than the alternative. i live in manhattan–we HAVE to be nice here. it’s too hard otherwise. & i am not on any medication. 🙂
>This is a hard one. I think if the inability to read the signs of the road would cause the driver to be unsafe, then they should not be given a license, but most signs are symbols anyway and can probably be learned fairly easily, some may even be international.As for not speaking English, I have no problem with that in general. Yeah, it might be inconvenient sometimes, but they are immigrants so I cut them some slack. My mother is an immigrant. They need time to learn the language and they will.